LUT's, On set vs. DI

Discussion on post and the Cinematographer - DI, VFX, etc.
johandijkstra
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LUT's, On set vs. DI

Postby johandijkstra » Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:20 pm

Hello Mr. Deakins and Forum members,
First my apologies for my poor English, and thanks for the amazing photography on Sicario, I enjoyed it a lot!!

As a newbe cinematographer I'm searching for ways to get more control on the final image color process. First; I never shot on film. I used to shoot LOG on several camera's and use a standard Rec.709 LUT for on set monitoring. Due budget reasons it's not always possible to sit next to the colorist in the DI. So after a few phone calls it's always a surprise to me how the final result appears. I love to see that different in the future ;).

So now I try to get my hands on a more efficient and color steady workflow by using LUTS for on set and DI. For instance I want a final look similar to a film stock like 'Kodak Vision3 500T 5219'. So the colorist applies a Cineon like log LUT of that film stock to the digital ARRI LOG. Then he applies his corrections and maybe a personal look. Finally he applies a Film Print Emulation LUT to reproduce the look of the traditional positive film print stock.

My question is: When we use the described workflow above, which LUT do I choose for on set monitoring that comes as close as possible to the final result? I can hardly combine the two different film stocks in one LUT right? I'm not going to use the Cineon Film Emulation LUT because it's too flat. So can I use a Rec.709 high film contrast version of that one or should I use the final positive Film Print Emulation LUT?

I know Mr. Deakins used practically the same on set LUT for Skyfall, Unbroken and Sicario, but still each film had his own unique look in a way. So i'm wondering what look is baked into that LUT? Is that the whole DI process? And does it come close to a old fashioned film stock?

Thanks a lot already, and i'm very happy to hear your LUT on set vs. DI workflows on this topic!

Roger
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Re: LUT's, On set vs. DI

Postby Roger » Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:49 pm

Firstly, I would not recommend Rec 709. To me the results of using this 'translation' is over saturation and contrast, which is something I become very aware of when an effects house use it. That said, I don't know what your best option is. As I have said elsewhere, I use a LUT developed specially by E Film, which translates from the on set monitor, and through to dailies and the DI.

sashamoric
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Re: LUT's, On set vs. DI

Postby sashamoric » Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:54 pm

But doesn't the alexa always record the log image even if the LUT is applied? Does the DIT have to apply the LUT to the image on the dailies?

johandijkstra
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Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 1:43 pm

Re: LUT's, On set vs. DI

Postby johandijkstra » Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:40 pm

So in you're taste a Rec709 LUT is to color and contrast full. Now I know you use practically the same LUT on set, dailies and in DI; does this mean that the final look of your movies are more flat than movies shot by others? Beacause Rec709 is a delivery standard? Or am I totally wrong on this topic?

And for my understanding of you're workflow:
If you're LUT makes the final look to you're image, does that mean that besides 'color matching' and applying the LUT itself that is the most you do in the DI?

Thank you so mutch for sharing you're taste and knowledge!!

IronFilm
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Re: LUT's, On set vs. DI

Postby IronFilm » Fri Nov 20, 2015 4:58 am

sashamoric wrote:But doesn't the alexa always record the log image even if the LUT is applied? Does the DIT have to apply the LUT to the image on the dailies?


Of course you would not want the Alexa to burn in the LUT. Not unless this is a crazy super tight turn around deadline. (and/or when dealing with clients who want to handle post themselves, yet don't have a clue what a "LUT" is.... and you can't have a hope at explaining it to them, then you might choose to burn in your LUT. This happens often enough on low end jobs)


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